In this engaging episode, Lance Tyson chats with Ryan Chute about the unique goalie mindset and how it relates to resilience and decision-making in sales. They discuss the importance of confidence under pressure, whether in sports or business, and touch on Ryan’s journey between Nova Scotia, Phoenix, and Austin. Lance also shares insights into Tyson Group’s rigorous trainer certification process and reflects on the value of adaptable leadership in dynamic environments.
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The Goalie Mindset: Building Resilience And Confidence In Sales With Ryan Chute
I'm really excited about this episode of the show. I have Ryan Chute who is a Partner at Wizard of Ads®. Here is a little background about Ryan. I was excited to get him on. I was watching a little video of him. He is from Nova Scotia. His family is in the furniture business. Most importantly, to me, where I think he and I are going to have a connection is he played goalie for ten years in hockey.
My sons all play hockey and I have a goalie. Ryan and I are in agreement that while there's a lot of risk in being a goalie, they tend to be the smarter of players. We came to an agreement here. This is going to take a little bit of a different turn because Ryan is an expert on how sales and marketing collide and how leadership looks at the orchestration and choreography of all those things.
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Ryan's Career Path
Ryan, welcome. Why don't you introduce yourself to the audience? I appreciate it.
I am grateful to be here. I'm blessed. I'm ridiculously grateful that I'm able to run an eight-figure agency within the Wizard of Ads®. We help out small businesses, mostly professional services, and home service businesses like air conditioning companies, plumbers, electricians, and accountants. It’s boring stuff that's not too sexy from a marketing standpoint, but we put a shine on it that allows people to connect with the brand so that they can grow their businesses.
It wasn't always this way. I started off in the family business. Going up through the family business can be a bit of a rough ride. In stepping out of that going to the corporate side and going into the auto book business, there is a lot of toxic boss energy out there. There are a lot of rough workplaces that weaponize fear, shame, and guilt. I mimicked a lot of that a lot of my life. I was a very transactional operator being raised in that environment and mirroring what I saw. I took what I saw. I was an astoundingly strong manager but a train wreck of a leader. It kicked my butt. I had to adapt and figure that out. That was the TSN turning point, as we say in Canada when we play hockey.
It's interesting what you said, especially being in a family business. You know this as well as anybody with your background. Where does the business start and the family stop and vice versa? Where does the conversation from last night not carry over into the business conversation? It's really hard to turn on and off.
With your background in HVAC, a lot of those companies happen to be family businesses. Sometimes, that EQ inside the family is different from the EQ you have to bring to the business. I was involved in the family business for a while. Two of my partners, their father founded the business. I was an equal partner to them.
They were always really good at never calling him dad in front of people. They always called him by his first name. At first, I didn't get it, but over time, I got it because they had to cause some kind of separation. When he was Sam, they weren't in family mode anymore. When he was Dad, they were. That’s well said. How did you get to the Wizard of Ads®? What was this journey? It sounds like you came up through a family business and broke out on your own. You're in this macro strategy play where companies are trying to grab market share, sell, and increase revenue. How did you get there?
I started transitioning around 2009. As the financial crisis hit the world, we were finishing off our last couple of house flips out in the Western side of Canada and realized there wasn't any access anymore for the foreseeable future at that time. I moved into the auto industry and got my feet wet there. I started in the business office. I was doing finance and insurance sales in the back end of the office.
After a couple of years of that, I found a business that was really thriving. It was a company in Canada that was doing sales where they do marketing and sales for the organization. I looked at that like a duck to water. It was interesting for me because I ended up quickly being able to go across the world doing this. I've been to 4 continents and 10 or 11 countries doing this type of thing.
I did so well that I was promoted to the Australasia market where they were opening up and to help them develop that whole market at the senior leadership level. We were talking with the OEMs of the manufacturers themselves and getting all of these things live. We had up to 60 trainers at 1 point in time going in and doing a 3-day event. We had driven the marketing and then netted a result. It was all very successful.
When I was done with that, my visa was done and I made my way back. They had overbaked it so much in the North American market that it had a negative, toxic vibe. While I tried to bear it out, I didn't have it in me to put up with the awful energy that was coming out of it. That's when I met Roy. I'd been reading the Monday Morning memo at MondayMorningMemo.com for several years. He has been doing it for 35 years. He never missed a Monday. He spoke about things in such a dramatically different way. Years ago, he was able to write three books about marketing, sales, and leadership. That's where I first heard about him. My father had introduced me to him.
I then moved it over to the class itself in Austin, Texas. There's a place called WizardAcademy.org. It's an organization. It's a not-for-profit school where they teach business owners how to communicate and advertise their business. That was unbelievably life-changing. I started going to every class. Roy got to know me. A couple of years in in 2017, he asked me to become a partner, which is the only way that you can become a partner.
For the last couple of years, I've been hard-charging. At first, I thought I was going to do sales training. As I looked at the landscape, I realized you're not going to win this game by training salespeople. You're going to win this game by getting the mindset of leaders right. My trajectory shifted. As COVID hit, I pivoted to selling the Wizard of Ads® service itself of marketing strategy and media buying and then going on a journey of learning what I needed to learn to help leaders lead better.
You will not win the business game by training salespeople. You will win it by getting the mindset of leaders right.
Let's go to something you said there. It’s interesting. With people who own businesses like yourself or myself, there's always that enthusiasm that you have. Do you have a job, a role, or a career? Even if you're a business owner, what does that look like? Most business owners know their business has a heartbeat and has its own soul. It's like a ship. They have a christening for a ship. A ship has a name. When you got involved with Wizard of Ads® as a partner and you started to work with these leaders, where did you migrate to? What's your superpower? Is it more the sales side, the marketing side, or where they collide? Where's your expertise there?
Probably the biggest lesson that I learned coming from a transactional world was the power of communication, the power of branding, and how the same thing that we typically would say but in a slightly different way had such a profound effect on things. I really gravitated to the overarching strategy with the unique ability to understand the marriage between marketing and sales through that leadership. That was the thing that I struggled with the most, which is why I put so much energy into breaking that down and understanding that to the level that I do now.
Common Sales And Marketing Mistakes
Where do you think leaders make the mistake between marketing and sales? When you start to look at a business, what's the first miss?
The first miss is always the first miss. It's that they believe that marketing is saying the same things as sales. Marketing is in no way saying the same things as sales, which is where there's often a disconnect, particularly when the marketing is terrible.
Not to put you on the spot, but give me an example. I happen to agree with the premise. They're two different pieces they tie in but they're not the same.
In sales, very often, the objective is to do something between persuading and educating the customer. There's more meat to the bone that's required to get the customer to a point where they're willing to say yes. There are varying degrees of that, and I've seen degrees of that from too much information to not enough. Where the people who are leading companies very often have to make the decisions on their marketing as much as the decisions on their sales is, “We need to educate our customers in our ads. We need to have a radio ad, a TV ad, or social media content that says our hours of operation, our background-checked lovely staff who are here to meet your needs, convenient parking, and wonderful hours.”
Those are all of the table-stakes stuff that nobody cares about. Who we are and what we do are not the two questions at the top of the funnel that marketing needs to answer. What they need to do is establish a bond through knowing, liking, and trusting the company by not telling a story about your story but rather being a story about your story.
Brand Identity And Client Experience
That’s interesting. Where does the brand collide with that? You're an expert on storytelling. When you're working with some of these organizations, the brand isn't always what you do, how you do it, and what you stand for. Do you end up doing coaching on that or working on the brand story also?
That's really where we start because a brand is the perfect conception. You're picking things up, unlike anyone that I speak to. It's wonderful. It's a real treat.
It's something as a business owner if I'm listening to you. I struggle with what the story is. Somebody said to me, “You're a training company. Why are your colors black and yellow?” I said, “It’s because most are blue, green, and white.” They go, “Why'd you pick black and yellow?” I said, “I think of it as more like DeWalt tools, Tonka trucks, and Livestrong. Something like that, I don't see it.” They go, “Why don't you tell that story more often?” I said, “That's a good point.” That is the brand story. I'm not here to talk about color palettes by any stretch of the imagination, but that's why. That's part of that story.
It's 1 of the 12 parts of your story. There are twelve key elements in a story in which a person manifests a perception. Your brand is, in my argument, your culture. The reason why your brand is your culture is because your culture is the employee experience. It's what you've done holistically, not just superficially, to serve your employees at the highest level to be able to deliver on the buyer's experience. The second half is the sales process from the perception of the giver and the taker. It's the employee experience and the buyer experience that make up the stories of your brand and what your brand represents. That's why stories are essential to move past table stakes and move past the natural demand that you're going to see in the industry, whatever industry it is.
It's interesting you say that. I had an old mentor who used to say, “Stories sell, facts tell.” A good story always sells. Why do we listen to podcasts? It’s because it’s a good story. People love a good story and to learn from stories, which is part of what we’re doing. That’s well said. Have you ever seen the movie Remember the Titans?
Yes.
The whole story is about a segregated high school football team in Virginia that comes together to desegregate. There's an African American contingent and a White contingent. They get to a point where the 2 leaders or the 2 linebackers say, “Let's straighten this out. What do I need to know about you?” The African American side, “You don't want to know about me.” He goes, “That's bull. Attitude reflects leadership.” The attitude of the leader does reflect the brand and it does become about the people.
I look at it from a Military standpoint. I spent time in the Military early in my life. I gravitated towards a lot of the strategic elements of it. I think about the commander's intent. The commander's intent showed its face in written history around the time the Germans were fighting the Napoleonic Wars. They had to come up with this idea of, “How in the world am I going to beat these Napoleonic armies?” Smashing troops into each other wasn't overly effective. What they figured out was, “I needed to give up my autocracy or my stronghold on every ounce of the plan and replace it with flexibility and allow them to meet the situation at any given time.”
I was listening to Jocko Willink a couple of months ago at Tommy Mello's event at Home Service Freedom. He was talking about extreme ownership. Everyone in the field, on an event, or whatever it might be that's going on at the time is a leader. They get to have full ownership of that because the battle plan only survives first contact. Mike Tyson says you always have a plan until you get punched in the face.
Everybody has a strategy until that happens. You got to know your role. That decentralized leadership that Jocko talks about is that everybody knows their role and everybody knows what the role is supposed to do. You don't need decentralized leadership. It's interesting. Jocko comes out of that school. General Stanley McChrystal did the back matter of my last book. He’s the general that put Al-Qaeda out of business in Iraq in 2010. He talks about that adaptability model, but he also talks about your ability to make decisions at a local level. That ties back into the culture piece.
How Leaders See Data Differently
Let's go back fundamentally. We talked about the brand and the story of the brand. The leader has to know the story, but what you're also saying is the people have to know the story because that becomes the collective. When I asked a question about where's the biggest mistake made, what you were saying between marketing and sales is they have two different functions. They're not the same. They're not synonyms at all. They're two different functions to get there. A thing you're an expert on is helping these leaders read the data. What surprises you most when you work with some of these leaders that are experts? Let’s pick a furniture company or HVAC firm. What blows you away about what they see in the data as opposed to when you come in with a fresh eye? What do you see?
There are a couple of things. Too often, too many people think that Key Performance Indicators mean every single thing that you measure is key when a lot of KPIs are just PIs.
Say that again. That's genius. That's profound. I want everybody to take note of that.
Most people believe that all KPIs are key. The reality is that a lot of KPIs are just PIs.
That is the most intelligent thing I've heard in two weeks. It's so simplistic. If everything's a priority, nothing's a priority.
That's right. You get bogged down in the crap. You're never going to win that game of trying to figure out everything. I've come down to three key categories that I look at that I believe are truly key. Those are conversions, averages, and profits. Those three things in every department will be able to tell you exactly where you are on the high level to determine whether or not you need to look at PIs to chase down a problem.
It's so interesting you say that. We might be related at some level. When we go in to talk to the sales team, they get so concerned about activity-driven indicators. I'm like, “You're so apt to give these hustle awards out for people.” I was on with a big agency right before I talked to you. He goes, “I have people that sit on Slack. It looks like they're working and they're sending AI-driven emails out. They're not talking to anybody but it looks like they're busy.” Busy work is not profitable action.
That's right. I'm a huge proponent of actions are useless without the correct behaviors. It's not just actions that we're looking to focus on. It's the behaviors behind them. If we're not delivering a clean call or we're not doing the things within the thing to get the result, then it doesn't matter how many calls you make or how many leads you get. How many times have I gone into a client and they're like, “We need more leads on the board. If you get them to us, we'll close them down.”
Actions are useless without the correct behaviors.
It's more of the right leads. I was on with my marketing person. She moved from Delaware to India. Her name's Vinki. We're running some pretty decent-sized campaigns from pay-per-click. We have the software. We can see what our competitors are doing and what their spending is. I said, “We haven't gotten anything in 48 hours.” She goes, “I turned some of the spam stuff off. We're getting the hits. We'll have some more conversions like you’ve seen.” It's a profitable action. What is the number?
That's exactly it. I call that high cap versus low cap leads. When you have a high-cap lead, you have a high conversion, average sale, and profit lead. You have a person that is most likely to close on the first or early sit. You're going to have a person that's going to purchase at a higher average and they're going to purchase more profitably because of that.
When we're paying attention to not just the short-term sale but the long-term lifetime value of a sale, it should translate into a much healthier business and, frankly, with people that you want to do business with. That all starts at the advertising that's done in branding and marketing at the ad level at the top funnel that says, “This is what we are. This is who we are. This is what we stand for. This is what we stand against.” Everything in that ad has to match with the employee experience. If it doesn't, the employee feels betrayed. If the employee feels betrayed, they're not going to deliver the buying experience that we expect. If the buying experience or employee experience doesn't work, the ads are crap.
That's so well said. I was always taught by anybody we did business with in the automotive industry that our Employee Satisfaction Index drives the Customer Satisfaction Index. ESI drives CSI. They have to believe in that brand promise. They have to believe in doing what you said you could do. If the ad is claiming something that the company doesn't believe they can do, that's where the culture crosses.
That's predominantly true in any service-oriented business where you're using human beings.
I agree.
An insurance company, accounting firm, or HVAC company all feel the same because you have people out there who are your champions who are either agreeing with your commander's intent or not.
Technology In Sales And Communication
Let's pivot for a second. Let's go to technology and sales. There are a lot of opinions out there about this onslaught of AI. I'm a proponent of it. I'm always like, “Don't be the last of the buggy whip.” I'm a writer. I've written a bunch of books. People ask me, “You can write a book with AI.” I say, “You got to orchestrate AI. You have to massage it. You have to ask it the right question. You have to hone it in if you're going to use it. It's not an original thought. You have to have original thoughts in there.”
You'll appreciate this has been a claim of mine. Do you feel that with all the ads you do and how these things can be written, some buyers and organizations that need the human touch less trust what's written and really want to hear what a person says? Maybe trust isn't the right word, but there's going to be some friction there so you're going to need the person to engage. I don't think it's going to take the person out with some of this stuff.
Some of the science that exists around this has to do with attention span. A lot of people say, “They tune out so quickly nowadays.” They tune out when you start saying boring things. If you're going to do something that matters, you have to get past this little bouncer in the left side of your brain. Broca the Bouncer is what I like to call them. Broca is this part of the brain that says, “Are you new, interesting, and different? If you're what I predict to be true, I'm tossing you out. You're going down the alley. Only the new, interesting, and different are going to go into VIP, the Club Imagination.”
At the end of the day, once you get into imagination, you can capture the heart. Once you've captured the heart, you can capture the logic center of the brain, which is on the left side. Imagination is on the right. There is no place for words here. This is all feeling. You have to make people feel. We're desperately trying to do that.
Dopamine is a heck of a drug. It's the only thing that is addicting in anyone's life because everything that you're addicted to activates dopamine, which is the addiction drug or the addiction molecule. Ultimately, we have to be cognizant of how we hit them with dopamine but we also have to be cognizant of how we hit them with oxytocin, which is the bonding chemical, the loyalty chemical, and the five-star review and unsolicited referrals molecule. That's what's lost in this market a lot of the time accidentally.
I agree with that. The attention span thing, you're so dead on it. I know plenty of people who mindlessly watch interesting things on TikTok, YouTube, or somebody's Instagram story. It has to be interesting. You have to get their attention and interest, and then you have to get their conviction. That is so well said.
Getting attention is easy. Keeping interest is hard. Getting them from attention to interest to the point where they have some sort of trigger cue, internal or external, that they need to make the decision to act is a determinant of how long your purchase cycle is.
That's the biggest miss thing that I can see with salespeople. If I send a ticket salesperson to engage with somebody for a buyer to buy a ticket to a hockey game or an HVAC person, they have to get their attention. It's usually some kind of a question. It's usually something like, “I’m sure you don't have a lot of time. You want to hear about the best deal.” That would get your attention. If I start a preamble and start talking about my business, that's the miss. That's where sales and marketing do have something in common. An ad better get somebody's attention or their interest. The salesperson has to do the same thing.
The ad has two jobs and they can't be done at the same time. You have to have an ad that activates the sale or an ad that establishes and deepens the bond with the customer through the brand.
Say that again. That was well said.
You either have to have an ad that activates the sale, which we call sales activation that offers the promotion or the good deal, or you have to have an ad that deepens the bond with the brand itself. Understand that branding is about identity. This is about me saying that I am a better person for being associated with this brand as an employee or as a customer.
When we understand that everything is oriented to identity, every motivational factor drives to identity and tells people, including ourselves, who we are in the world. That's when we're going to have greater success in elevating our brands because we're going to say stuff that aligns our brand with theirs. Jeep always has commercials with people driving around the outdoors like Subaru at the top of a mountain somewhere. You have McDonald's. It's not the McNuggets that they see in every commercial going in slow motion out of a fryer. It's, “I'm loving it.” It's the things that anchor in and say, “I appreciate this over that.”
That's well said. That conversation goes from the macro to a salesperson engaging with somebody at that level. That is where the connection is. I go back to what we said earlier. If you can't get granular with that, it's hard to turn your organization into a sales and marketing organization because they don't understand it. When times change, they don't understand where that plugin is. That's where an organization like yours, I would assume, operates with some precision surgically to help somebody understand that. Once you understand those pieces, you'll figure out what you need to do at different turbulent times when things change.
I'm really blessed to have had the opportunity to see hundreds of these in action in real-time. The best operations, the market leader operations, and the ones that we've taken from small companies to dominant market leaders are always the ones that see themselves as a marketing company first, a sales company second, and a pain relief company third. They're always trying to take friction out of the process.
One of my HVAC companies has less than 100 items in their price list. They sell three things. They sell plumbing, HVAC, and electrical, so to get under 100 is astounding. The average would come in at 2,000 or 3,000 items. A technician who's going to struggle with the identity of being a salesperson to start with and also be a profoundly good technician that is a technically sound and very logic-oriented person, how well are they going to do having to sift through all of the bibs and bobs and all these things and then start writing all of these crazy graphs and all this stuff to convince people? All of that's fundamentally nonsense that we've convinced ourselves is important when these guys are converting in an average of about fourteen minutes once they get to the conversion point.
We do it a lot in sports. In every sports team, one of the categories they sell, too, is the injury lawyer. Every city has an injury lawyer. I was coaching a team up in Minnesota. I was working with the Timberwolves. We were going back and forth. I said, “How do you sell with these injury lawyers?” They said, “They all have egos.” I go, “What makes you say they have an ego?” They said, “Their names and their faces are always on the ads.” I go, “That has nothing to do with egos.”
I said, “Let's go into Google and look at where they land. Their brand is them. That is their brand. They don't advertise with you because they have egos. They advertise with you because where else are they going to go to get people to funnel into their sales cycle? Why else would you call an injury lawyer unless you were injured? You're not calling an injury lawyer any other time. You guys are immature with the way you're thinking about it.” I wasn't saying them as salespeople. I said, “You're thinking you're selling to their ego. This is a business need for them.”
There's a roofing company. I'm in Columbus, Ohio. There's this marketing company, Able Roofing. I live right up the street from the Memorial Tournament. They always have a big banner coming behind a plane over the Memorial Tournament. I don't know if they're the best roofers because I've never done business with them, but I do know they're the best marketing and sales organization out there.
I use Atlas Butler here in town. We always have a maintenance contract. They do our HVAC. They are the best advertisers in town because they don't look at themselves as a plumbing and heating company. They look at themselves as a marketing sales organization first. I agree that we’re a marketing in sales organization. They're the ones that grow.
The telltale sign is that customers will demand that you grow when you do what's right for them not just during and after the sale but before the sale as well. That's often the missing ingredient. It is the before and the after.
They humanize their story. It goes back to culture. They tell their story. That's really well said. Let's pivot one more time. I’m curious. Look at the grand scheme of things. One of the things I kicked off is when we look at any business enablement and talent become two big cogs, what are you seeing out there from a technology standpoint that a salesperson could use to help with their sales productivity? What are some things that are overrated and what are some things that you're seeing that are working? A lot of our leaders here are constantly asking that question.
It is a trap. There's an awful lot of fantastic technology out there. There’s lots of stuff going on in AI. There’s lots of stuff happening that’s shiny bubbles. What I'm going to say is always go back to first principles. Always go back to strategy, not tactic. I have had, for the last couple of years, a foldout binder with pieces of paper slipped into it very strategically with the things that I'm going to hit a customer on for different industries, whether it be the car industries, home service industries, and those types of things. The less technology I have, the better I do. It's because a lot of the technology ends up being distractive.
Always go back to first principles and strategy, not tactics.
There's also a certain trustworthiness to something that's printed on a glossy sheet of paper that's got a little bit of tension to it, something that's not a flimsy piece of paper but it's got some weight to it. The reason is that costs money. You can change the thing on your iPad before you get in the door. There ends up being this notion that we're being convincing and we're being persuasive by having these decks of information out of people.
A few years ago, I sat in an organization spot where they had none of that stuff. They cut out 90% of the nonsense and got it down to 5 or 6 important things. They talked about it. The technology they used was an iPhone. They put it on speaker phone and they talked it over. They were selling virtually at a 70% conversion in the home service space. Nobody in the home service space is converting at that level.
You're exactly right. What's interesting about what you're saying is what a lot of organizations don't realize is they want the new better thing. A lot of our customers will sell with some kind of technology when we're on a Zoom call or a Teams call. They’re like, “How do we present better through this technology?” I'm like, “It's not about you presenting better. I can pull content up in two seconds. It's there. When you have a lot of dials and a lot of opportunities to add on, it slows the conversation down. The conversation is supposed to be with the client.” I said, “The best thing you could do is teach somebody how to facilitate a conversation, lay out an agenda, and cause some kind of engagement and things like that. It's the skill with technology that's really important.”
Sometimes, too much is too much. We have a saying inside the Tyson Group. Tyson Group, for 2 years in a row, we're in Inc. 5000. We're a very fast-growing company. This is not a marketing thing, so you'll appreciate this. We say we eat our own dog food. W[1] e were pitching a national supply house in HVAC. My salesperson was like, “I'm going to bring this laptop. We're going over the proposal.” I go, “What happens if we go to their offices and technology doesn't work? What are we going to do?”
Advice For Small Business Owners
He was like, “I haven't thought about it because I haven't pitched live in a while.” I go, “That's why we're going to take our proposals and we're going to print them out. We’re going to hand them the proposal.” He was like, “They have a screen.” I go, “Let’s always be ready if it doesn’t work.” Do you know what happened? It didn't work. Sometimes, that simple face-to-face, a handshake, and things like that, keep it simple. I love the advice.
Let’s bring this down to a landing. If you were going to coach a small business owner or a leader of a sales team of a big or small company, what's some advice you'd give to them if they were more of a CRO role that had marketing and sales? What's some coaching or some thought you would give to them about how to manage and lead moving forward?
There are a couple of things. If you don't have a person like me in the room who has the ability to understand those narratives, you're probably going to make some decisions in a blind spot. You're going to have some gaps in your communication structure. You're going to create fiction that you don't intentionally create but it's going to be there. We're going to assess that from multiple angles.
The second thing is if you're doing things, look at where the friction points are. Find the spot where you're getting the bottleneck, the breakpoint, or the blind spot that's stopping the sale from going forward. It could be anything from the lead coming in, the conversion on the phone, and the traffic coming through the door to the website.
We had a client one time who said, “On our website, we've got to do ads that send everyone to our call center.” We knew that wasn't scalable. They were a big company that was looking to scale significantly. When I say significantly, I mean hundreds of millions significantly. We looked at the website and went, “Your website sucks. Fixing the website is the answer. Don't change the ads. The ads are continuing to do the thing.”
Their website converts over 70% of their appointments. This isn't an organization that would need 800 CSRs if they ran them at each 1 of their 200 locations, but because of the efficiency of the website in conjunction with their call center, which is also exceptionally good, they can do that with 250 CSRs. That's profound to the bottom line.
Inspiring And Energizing Books And Music
That makes a lot of sense. That's well thought out. I ask all my guests this. I took this from Tim Ferris. I have three more questions. This is all about you personally. If you had to gift a book to somebody, what would you gift them?
I would gift them the book that changed my life and the trilogy from Roy H. Williams. The Wizard of Ads was the first one. It is then Magical Worlds of the Wizard of Ads and then the Secret Formulas of the Wizard of Ads. In fact, we do gift those books. You can go to the website and get free PDF downloads and audiobooks.
The book you do business with, that's the one you’d gift them.
I've got probably 50 of them sitting in my closet.
I love that. You're going to sign a big deal. You got a big pitch yourself. What song are you playing in your head?
Daydream by Lily Meola.
Defining Success To A Child
This is the last question. You're up at the lake at your lake house. Pretend you have a lake house if you don't. You're sitting on the edge of the dock and you have a niece or nephew that’s 7 or 8 years old sitting on the other side. Remember, this is a 7 or 8-year-old, so you have to communicate on their terms. This can't be too philosophical. When they say, “Uncle Ryan, what does it mean to be successful?” You say what?
I say, “It's to be grateful because the true pursuit of happiness is gratitude.”
Let’s land it right there. Be grateful. That’s the true mark of success. It’s great having you here. I hope we can do this again because there are about five turns we could have gone knee-deep into. I'm going to set an appointment and have my team talk to you because I want you to look at my website.
I’d love to.
We're always looking to get better. There were some things that you were saying with conversion rates where I was like, “We could do better.” I appreciate your time. Thanks for being on.
My absolute pleasure. Thank you.
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